The Hangout with David Sciarretta
Conversations with interesting people.
The Hangout with David Sciarretta
#102: Royal Ramey, The Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program
In this inspiring episode, Dr. Sciarretta has a conversation with Royal Ramey, CEO and co-founder of The Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program (FFRP). Mr. Ramey shares the story of his journey from prison to firefighting by way of "fire camp." Upon his release, Mr. Ramey joined the Mojave Greens in their firefighting mission, and has since worked to train, inspire, and uplift formerly incarcerated people who are interested in the firefighting profession.
For those interested in supporting FFRP's mission, visit this link to make a tax-deductible donation of any amount.
To keep up with Mr. Ramey's journey, follow him on Instagram @royal.ramey. FFRP can be found on Instagram @ffrp_ca.
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Welcome to the Hangout Podcast. I'm your host, david Shoretta. Come on in and hang out. In this episode, I was privileged to have a conversation with Royal Ramey. Royal is the co-founder and CEO of FFRP, which stands for the Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program, which stands for the Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program.
Speaker 1:Royal grew up in the San Fernando Valley in California and, as he describes it, had a challenging upbringing, both in the home as well as on the streets. Then that led to some poor decision-making and, ultimately, his incarceration incarceration, as Royal describes. He discovered this concept of fire camp while incarcerated and subsequently, after deciding to commit to this training process, which he describes in depth in this episode, he spent 11 months pursuing a professional degree in fire. Royal finally received an opportunity to join the Mojave Greens of the US Forest Service, which is a crew operating out of San Bernardino, california. Royal has spent more than 10 years as a wildland firefighter in the US Forest Service, cal Fire, and now with the Buffalo Hand Crew, which is FFRP's own private fire department.
Speaker 1:In 2022, royal received a pardon from Governor Newsom on behalf of the state of California. In 2023, he was awarded the Obama Leaders USA Program Participant Award and in 2024, became a TED Fellow Royal gives credit to God for the success that he has experienced in this whole notion of being able to turn around a life and then pass that on to others. I hope that you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Welcome, mr Ramey. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast this afternoon.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I thought we could get started with the most logical starting point, which is your origin story, where you come from, what your past was like and what brings you to the present moment, and then we'll talk more about the work you do today.
Speaker 2:Hey, cool. So you know, royal Remy, I actually grew up in the San Fernando Valley. Oh, actually let me go back a little bit. So I was born in Houston, texas. My mom came out here when I came out to California when I was one years old, lived in South Central Compton area and then we moved to the San Fernando Valley when I was eight years old. There I lived in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood from eight to 16 years old and you know my mom she, when we moved we had my stepdad. She met him at the LAX stepdad. She met him at the LAX where she was working.
Speaker 2:And I have an older sister, I got a younger sister and growing in the Valley it was kind of tough living in a gang infested neighborhood. So you know I was one of the three black kids on the block. So it was definitely a challenge, you know, being in the streets and my stepdad actually didn't take fond of me. So I kind of reverted to, you know, my environment and it kind of led me into, you know, in the streets and hanging around with the Rome crowd, hanging around with the wrong crowd, and I got immersed into the street life a little bit and, you know, accumulated some bad habits and you know you know what that leads either dead or in jail and, you know, went to jail on multiple occasions juvenile hall and prison. But I ended up, you know, getting into some trouble when I was in the valley and my mom decided to move to San Bernardino County where I reside now. And, yeah, just a little firecracker and doing, you know, making poor choices and which led me to, you know, robbery and burglary and which led me to, you know, robbery and burglary and that's how, you know, I started spending my young adult life in prison and you know I went to prison. I was sentenced to six years in prison. I did four years, eight months, and at a time I was kind of like flabbergasted on me. You know, being in a situation I was in. I was always a smart kid, had good grades, but you know, the streets pretty much took over.
Speaker 2:But while I was in prison I realized that, you know, I wanted to do something better in my life. I knew prison wasn't a lifestyle for me that I really wanted to indulge with and talk to a lot of folks that was in there. That was like man, this is not for you, like you're smarter than these other cats and started to do some self-healing and reflect self-reflection. And I remember vividly in a sale one day, a gentleman there he slided a Sports Illustrated magazine and up in my sales. I read this and on the cover it was John Wall. He was a freshman, kentucky on his way to the NBA and I asked the question. He was a freshman in Kentucky on his way to the NBA and I asked the question.
Speaker 2:I was like you know how, like you know, we're kind of around the same age, you know both black men right, like how did he get to a place of college and a similar upbringing as me, he in college and I'm in prison? And I realized that you know, it was a lot of choices that he made, regardless of the circumstances he was in. And you know what can I do to be better and try to change the narrative for my family? I remember being in middle school and my mom received a big package and my uncle was in prison at the time. I remember and got the big package and my uncle was um, was in prison at the time. I remember and uh, got the big package and we got noticed that he actually uh, died in prison ironwood state prison and and that kind of like started to, like, you know, get me to thinking of like man, I don't want to die in prison, you know, um, and as I figured, I didn't realize the things that I was going through as a young man and it's a lot of things. I had a lot of anger issues. I was, you know, upset about my circumstances, obviously, and like opportunity, and I really I learned fast in prison, you know, patience, but also the power of choice is real and just taking responsibility and accountability for myself and, um, you know, start doing that self-healing.
Speaker 2:And from there I end up, you know, have an opportunity to go to fire camp and went to my annual review, because you usually do that every year when you're in prison to evaluate your, your behavior and status. And they said that you know I'm eligible to go to fire camp. You know you want to go, and I was like, what is fire camp, you know? So I'm like, can I get some time to think about it or talk to some folks? And it's like, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2:Um, at that time California or the California um department of corrections rehabilitation was sending folks um out of state because it was overcrowding California. So I actually ended up going to Arizona and Mississippi. Um, so in the time I was in Mississippi in 2012, I actually, you know, it was kind of like it was foreign to me. So when I called my mom, I got an opportunity to go to fire camp. She was like, boy, you better hurry up and get back out here and go and do that. And then I talked to a couple of folks that was in the cell block that I was in and it was like, you know, know, yeah, fire camp was great. You know good food, it's a dormitory, you know living situation. You have, um, you got the ability to visit your family, can visit you in a park, like setting right, there's all these different. You know great things about it. Um, so I was like, you know what, sure, why not? So did uh, went back to california, did the the training that they, uh, they provided when it comes to being a wildland firefighter? And I end up, uh, going to fire camp. But little did I know that I had to change my trading, my nikes for these boots. And you know, um, there's this, you know, get this pack and it's a McLeod. And it was like what, what is this? I never even thought that like folks really did this actually on the front lines fighting fires and stuff. So it was mentally and emotionally and physically challenging, but from there I actually end up embracing and loving it, racing and loving it.
Speaker 2:In the last, I believe, like 20 plus months of my sentence, I dedicated my focus in life to, you know, a wildland firefighter and fell in love with it. I wanted to pursue it as a career, but it wasn't a really true pathway to be able to transition over to professionally once you have been incarcerated. At the time that I was in prison. So I met up with my co-founder, brenda Smith, and we was like man, we love this, and we went to pursue this as a career and it was like but it's like, you know, it's the whispers around, you know, if you have a felony, if you are you, if you are a felon, you can't become a firefighter. So for some reason I felt like it wasn't true. I felt like it wasn't through. I felt like it was something there and I was like man, I love this. Uh, you know, I want to. I wanted as bad as I want to breathe. So I was going to figure out a way to be able to make that happen.
Speaker 2:And um, um came home. You know we had found a pathway of how to transition from incarceration to um being a wildland firefighter with the US Forest Service, and then, in 2018, I ended up getting an opportunity to work for Cal Fire, and that's when I knew, you know, it's something that we need to put on paper. So I ended up following a 501c3 status and pretty much from there, we helped over 300 people get jobs in the fire service. About 60 people now work for Cal Fire out of those numbers and it's just been a journey for sure. And now you know, running I'm the CEO and a co-founder of the organization. It's just, you know, it's been been, it's been crazy since the la fires and we we was, you know, kind of, you know, not a small non-profit just making, making change in a little corner and then I had to operate, you know, la fires head and I got a lot of publicity and around what we've been doing. Well, I, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Um, you're very humble about the work you do and I know you've you've received national international recognition. We'll get. We'll get to that in a minute. But I want to go back to this question I had around, like how felons convicted felons can be used to fight fires but can't become firefighters officially when they when they get out of prison. How has the law changed or did you guys find a workaround or talk to us about that?
Speaker 2:yeah. So it's just been misconception around that um california has been utilizing incarcerated people since the 1940s and a lot of folks have transitioned, but it's never been like a true um pathway. And when I say that it's like more of a, you know you can actually do it and these are the steps on this the application process, the certifications you need and um, in order for you to be able to transition successfully. And you know, for me personally, you know it just when I got to or when I started to do this wildland firefighting thing and being a firefighter or CAL FIRE professionally is just really the stigma. And I think for me you know, working for the Forest Service, it was more so how to navigate the application process right, like, what do you put on your?
Speaker 2:Because when I was the time that I, you know, worked for the Forest Service, you know you had to explain, like, have you had in the last seven years, have you ever, you know, have a felony? You know you have to explain, like, have you had in the last seven years, have you ever, you know, have a felony? And it's the way you explain the situation was very critical because before then, I know, like a lot of folks would say certain things and they did just get disqualified. So it was really around like verbiage and making sure that you understand how to you know place it. But like it's really been, it's been a thing you know a lot of folks been have an opportunity to do it. It's just knowing you know how to navigate the application process and what certifications you need and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:So that's actually, then, the work that your nonprofit is supporting young men with, then correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, young men and women. Men and women, men and women.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yes, so I'll get back to the nonprofit work in a minute. But I'm intrigued by the concept of fire camp. So I've never been in prison and so all I know is by speaking with people who have been and by reading about it. But I'm sure there are parts of prison that are physically demanding et cetera. But then there's also a part where there's a lot of decision making that's made for you, right Like your life is pretty restricted physically, emotionally, psychologically, maybe even spiritually challenging on a whole different level. Was there a fitness component? Was there? Had you even been? Were you an outdoor kind of dude or was it like, or was that all new?
Speaker 2:to you. Yeah, it was definitely new. I, you know, grew up in, you know urban and inner city, you know so, our community, so so it's like it was definitely different. Um, never seen you know wild animals, right, never been into the forest in no way, shape or form or fashion, so it was definitely new to me.
Speaker 2:The physical um component is really, uh, challenging for, I believe, for anybody when you imagine you know you having this equipment on you, having you know your PPE on, like you going out there in the front lines and and creating fuel breaks on steep terrain and you know it's, it's, it's hot, you know it's, you know it's just, it's just it's, it's, it's just crazy, right, like I really I remember on multiple occasions, or actually let me tell you this funny story. So I remember on my first hike, you know I got the pack, got the boots, got the PPE and stuff, and I was like, all right, we're going to hike this mountain and like I'm like what got the ppe and stuff, and it's all right, we're gonna hike this mountain and like I'm like what? Like? And it's different from you flat ground or you running all right with all this equipment on and having this tool in your hand and it's like what? Like it's crazy. And I remember, uh, you know we first, you know our, our whole crew, you know was, was, you know was hiking up and stuff, and you could see like the gap for me and the last person, or me being the last person in the gap with the second person, it was like you know, tremendous right.
Speaker 2:And I remember finishing the hike and my captain was just waiting on me and looking at me and I'm physically exhausted, right, and I'm like just felt like I was defeated and I'm like just felt like I was defeated and he told me he's like man, ramey, you're like the youngest guy on the crew and you're the slowest, like what are you? You know what's going on right, he's like I'm 50 plus years old, like I'm beating you up the mountain and stuff, and I was like man, like immediately I was like man, this sucks, right. I don like. You know, I felt like he was even calling me soft Right. So I'm like you know what I ain't soft Right. So let me, let me show him and I think, with a lot of the healing and a self-reflection of myself and what I've been working on, you know, my mental and my emotional intelligence while I was in prison gave me the ability to really, you know, take on that challenge and you know I just start working out every.
Speaker 2:You know take on that challenge and you know I just start working out every. You know working out more, hiking more. Even on the weekends I used to hike with the more captain and just building that, the stamina Cause it's. There's nothing like nothing. Compare you for the mountain, like you have to just do it. You got to hike, you can't. The swimming and running, the pull-ups, the weights stuff is not going to help you. So, um, but from there it was definitely um, a challenge for at first, and you just condition your body, you know you can acclimate to it.
Speaker 1:So it must have been in a certain way liberating though, because I'd imagine that that you got judged for your fitness and how effective you were at your work, right Like. Was that a liberating experience for you? Like you weren't necessarily identified with what your sentence was, but rather whether you were good or not at the firefighting.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It really showed me that I feel like if you can fight fire, you could do anything right, like, and it gave me the sense of purpose and pride.
Speaker 2:Um, it really helped me grow in all those three areas, you know mentally, emotionally, physically and also spiritually too, like you said, um, it really gave me, um, gave me the power of, of, of choice and, just like, I think, even me being more fearless of all things, like I was in the streets doing, you know, dumb stuff and I'm like, if I can be able to take some of that, um, you know that adrenaline junkie and you know the, the, the, the youth of myself, and if I can, you know, do all this negative stuff, like, how can I, how can I take that energy and put it into something that's good, especially when you on fires and you come back and you see, thank you firefighters, regardless, if you have, are you wearing orange? It really shows that, um, you know, like I'm a firefighter, like I felt like I was while I was in prison, and really gave me that, that liberating, umating ideology and spirit for me to be able to continue to pursue it as a career.
Speaker 1:Talk to us a bit about the actual everyday work of your nonprofit. Are you recruiting in prison to help encourage young men and women to take this path, or are you waiting until they're in the fire camps and then you're helping transition them into the career post-incarceration? Talk to us about the work you do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely All of the above. We visit all 35 camps to be able to recruit and give them that inspiration and give them something to look forward to once they come home and obviously tell our stories to our staff that have the lived experience, like myself, and being able to help them. You know, help them transition is to give them that spark. And you know we have an intake coordinator that you know have. You know, contact them, let them know that there's an ability for them to come home and once they actually come home, you know we can be able to put them through our career training program. If they're, they can be able to come to San Bernardino or Oakland. And and then, you know, obviously we do the training piece, which is consists of an eight week program. We give them all the, the, the certifications they need to get an entry level position with Cal, fire, the forest service or even a you know, private, you know contract crew or any like a forestry, um type of careers and um, you know that's the like. The first four weeks really focused on the, the, the certification piece, and then the second ladder part is more towards um, employment support. You know, help them with their resume, help them with financial literacy, help them also get their expungement through AB 2147. And then we also do field mitigation work. So when you're not fighting fires, when you're in fire camp, you do a lot of field mitigation work, meaning you know brush clearing, weed abatement. Some programs have like tree programs in in camps so you can be able to learn how to like cut down hazardous trees. I'm doing a defensible space work and stuff throughout the um the state and plus we've been doing some prescribed burning with the nature conservancy as well. So we give them, try to give them a gambit of knowledge, skills and abilities, um, how to do it professionally.
Speaker 2:Um, once they come home, and the big, the but the biggest thing is the life skills piece. Because, like I think, when you think about folks that's being incarcerated, like they're, they're considered a public nuisance, right. So how do you get them to be, to look at themselves as a public servant? So it's the way that you carry yourself, it's the way that you have to come up and show up and show out. Like firefighting is a lifestyle, it's not a nine to five, so it's really a 180 mindset that they will have to embrace, to look themselves as somebody that that serves their, you know their, their, their community, you know 24, seven, regardless of you know the time or the date. So, and also like the navigating the application process.
Speaker 2:But then, but once you get the, you know the, the, the job as a firefighter, like, how do you transition successfully in a predominantly white Caucasian male field? You know our profession at that. So, ways that you, you know because you know firefighting can be, you know as a rookie, can be challenging, you know as a rookie can be challenging. So you, you have to learn how to adapt and overcome and embrace the suck and understand how to, you know, adapt, you know. And then, especially in the in the wilderness and rural areas and stuff, so, um, it's definitely um, that gambit. And then also we provide a stipend, um, a paid stipend while they're in a program as well it really sounds like you've covered all the different angles.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you that question you got to it ahead of me was the cultural bridge between you know that the, the, the unfortunate, the unfortunate, tragic reality of our, of, of, uh, incarceration is, is young people of color, and and, and not only young people, but young people, people of color, rather, and then I'd imagine, without having done the research, that this back country culture of firefighting is pretty white, and so you know that's an interesting bridge right For people to to cross. How, how has your I'm sure you measure, you have success metrics for the? The cycle of recidivism is is something that that is super challenging to break, as you know, as you know more, more better than I do Like what's your success rate? And I'm sure that's something that keeps you up at night. Right, is like what would be tough it would be. Someone goes through your program and then ends up back in the system yeah, so successful.
Speaker 2:Our success rate is about 90 percent compared to, I think, the nation's like 44 percent, and in california is a little bit above that too. So, um, I think we try to identify people. That's really serious about it and, you know, tightening up our vetting process and I know, as you, you know, obviously you each are we training about 100 people a year. So, um, you, you know it's a gut feeling when it comes to, you know, trying to identify people that serious, because you do have those folks. That's not.
Speaker 2:But I think there's some folks that when they first come, or you know they might have, obviously they have a lot of challenges right, you know, with trauma in their life and got to get over things.
Speaker 2:And, um, one of the things that I like know to be true is that it is, you know, firefighting is a preliminary culture and when you um are having dealt with people that don't have like authority right, like they're, they're trying to bug up the system, it can be a definitely a transition. But, um, sometimes it takes, you know, one or two times or three, even three times for them to get it and really understand the magnitude. Especially the younger they are, the more um challenging it can be, but as though, like the average of all the 30-year-old person that comes through our program, are more set to be more successful because they've been through some things in life. But yeah, it's definitely crazy because you see so much potential in each and every person. But it's really for them to make the decision to really keep this standard and knowing that this is a viable option for them and this could be a career changing opportunity for them if they really take it serious.
Speaker 1:Before we had started hitting record, you mentioned the LA fires, la fires, and so obviously this is a really tough year for firefighting in California. Talk to us about the role that your organization played and how you interacted with the fighting of those fires. My understanding is that it's a multi-agency effort. It sounds like firefighters are coming from multiple states, sometimes from multiple countries. When it's a multi-agency effort, it sounds like firefighters are coming from multiple states, sometimes from multiple countries. When it's something that big, how did your organization fit into that quilt of overlapping agencies?
Speaker 2:So during the time we just had started our cohort. So usually what we do is we give them the basic 32, because they have a couple of other classes before they can even be considered or a program. So when the LA fires hit it was actually the training that they need in order for them to actually go out and be a wildland firefighter with the Forest Service or even with Cal Fire on a hand crew. So we was doing that and then and a lot of the alumni that came through our program in previous years actually fought fires, fought the LA fires, the Eden and Palisades fire, and so that's one of the biggest role we play. But then once we finish our training, everything kind of started dying down.
Speaker 2:Like you said, like you mentioned, you know, we have support from Mexico, I believe, and also Canada. So we didn't actually fight fires but we end up going and did a TNC project, which is a national conservancy project, out in the Tahoe National Forest and doing some prescribed burning. But the biggest role we played yeah was, you know, we had pretty sure, you know a lot of our alumni was working with the different multi-agencies to be able to put out those fires and so really, you know, it sounds like you train for backcountry stuff, but also urban.
Speaker 1:Is that right too? Is that like you guys have to have skills that apply across the board?
Speaker 2:So the forest service is really focused on, you know, the back country and the wildland firefighting um, um sector. But then when you work for cal fire, depending on if you you know you're on a hand crew or you're on an engine, you know you can be able to um do a whole lot right. So, like cal fire is an all-risk fire department. You got 21 units throughout the state and they have state responsibility area that they cover and you could, you know, actually you know be on the engine and respond to a medical aid in your unit or you could do a structure, you know, structure fire or vehicle fire support and rope and rescue, which I have, you know know, done in my career when I worked for cal fire.
Speaker 2:But for the most part we focus more so on, on the wildland portion, um, really the skills that they have learned while they was incarcerated on the crew. We really pretty much fine-tune that. But then also we provide some certifications like Hazmat Pro and Combined Spacing Awareness, public Safety, first Aid, because those are some of the certifications you need in order for you to work for CAL FIRE. So it's more focused on wildland firefighting. But we have a lot of alumni and folks that come by talk to the folks about other opportunities with CAL FIRE on the more on the all risk side.
Speaker 1:So your work has received widespread recognition and, if I'm not mistaken, you were recognized by the Obama Foundation and also as a TED fellow. That must have been a pretty surreal experience. Talk to our listeners about those experiences and how that kind of reaffirms the work you've been committed to for all these years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that gave me goosebumps. While you said that it's crazy, I remember talking to one of my employees and he was like hey, hey, chief, I think you should apply for this Obama foundation leadership program. Um, yeah, I think you'd be a great fit. Looked at, I was like, ah, they might not like to be right, I'm just this guy. So I remember putting my application in and, uh, they called me for an interview, interviewed me, and I was like man, and you know they, they, they selected me. And I was like man, and you know they, they selected me. And I was like, okay, I must be doing something right, right, um, and we had some recognition from congresswoman cam logger dove in 2022, I think, which kind of like catapulted that with the james irvine foundation, because I got the leadership award with my co-founder, and that's first, and then the Obama, and then, and then I had the opportunity to when I applied to the, the TED fellowship in 2024, which really kind of put us on the map, um, and, and also the governor, um, actually parted me in 2022 too.
Speaker 2:So I'm not I'm not a fan of like talking all about my accolades or whatever, but, um, it is rewarding. You know, me starting out, or me, me and brandon starting this organization. It was never about accolades, it was really about impact, right? Uh, just wanted I just knew that when I was in camp that I wish I had somebody to say hey, you know, you know, I understand how you feel, being in your situation, your shoes, and this is a valuable option for you. So that's one of the reasons why I started it.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, throughout these years it's been surreal, it's been an honor.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes I get a little emotional just thinking about it, because you know it does feel good to be recognized for good work, because you know, you know, for the most of my life, you know always been.
Speaker 2:You know, you know the public, you know the public nuisance or the, you know the minister, society guy, you know, you know, and it's just, it's just, it's good to to know my worth and know that that I am contributing to society and I just, I just know that once it's all said and done for me, when, when, hopefully, I'm in a deathbed, when I die or whatever, right, and I can look at my family's eyes and and know that not only just influenced them that surround me but also generations of folks that have been underrepresented and underserved and given them an opportunity to be able to provide for their families financially but also be an asset to the community, not only throughout the state, but even the nation, because when you work with the Forest Service, you go and fight fire all throughout the country.
Speaker 2:So it's a great feeling. Honestly, I'm looking forward to more opportunities like this and wanted to just continue to share my story because people will be surprised that, you know, by me being in fire camp like, where a lot of people think that you know you're in prison right. Like you know you don't have too many options when you come home to be successful, but you actually do so I just want to continue to spread that awareness about it.
Speaker 1:Well, I, you know your story is inspirational and a true story of redemption, and so I thank you for sharing it. And it's interesting to me as I think about the stereotype that so many people carry around is they think, oh well, you know, felons, like, are almost quote, unquote. You know, like, like, let's stick them on the front lines of fighting fires because you know that's just a good place to to put them. I mean, I've heard those comments a lot, but actually, as you talk through this, you, you, when you, when you went into fire camp, like they were forming you into, I mean, you, you might have been a tough guy behind bars, but you're out there, a different environment.
Speaker 1:The old dude calls you soft or kind of intimated that right, and you got to get, you got to get your stuff in order and then you, actually, you turn this into a career. I mean, what more inspiring thing can there be than that? So, so I I'm wondering if you could, if you could, give me a message for your. I don't know how old you are when you started to get, how old you were, rather, when you started to to run on into trouble on the streets. But let's just choose an age, like, let's say, 16, your current age. What message would you give your 16 year old self right now, like if you could go back and talk to him. What would you tell him?
Speaker 2:Um, I think the first thing I'll say is you're great, right. You know you worthy of being able to be what you want to be, like it was. It was a time I remember like I wanted to be a lawyer. I thought of all types of businessmen, right, like all the different things, and I just felt like it was too far fetched for me, right, like I remember I tell folks this all the time. I remember, you know, running around the streets and stuff, seeing red engines and trucks, and I never thought that that could be me, because I never seen nobody that looked like me. So that was never something I thought about. It wasn't an option for me. I felt like it was.
Speaker 2:Either you had to be, so success looked like either you had to be in the streets, right, or you had to be an entertainer of some sort, right. So if I could tell my younger self was like you know, just because you don't see yourself or you don't, you know, think that you can probably do it. I think you know you, you can, right. I think that's where the young folks, they get discouraged and then they want things fast, right Like the media gratification on things, and it's like you got to be patient right, like the immediate gratification on things, and it's like you got to be patient, you got to wait and you got to research, you got to you know, put in the time and effort to be great. You know, but you have the potential, you are great, like it's in you, it's already in you and you know.
Speaker 2:The biggest message would be like understand the power of choice, like, regardless of the situation you're in and where, where you at, and the environment you in. Like you, you have the opportunity to, to do what's right, you know, and stay away from the knuckleheads and stuff. And I think that that could have really been, um, you know, monumental and like it'd have been more um, it would have been a real impact to hear those type of things and having being like having a mentor right and somebody that can help um, guide and direct you, and seeing a different type of lifestyle. But you know you're great man, you got it in, you can do what you want to do. Just understand your true power that you have within yourself and your mind where can people go to learn more about your work and support you?
Speaker 1:I'm assuming that that there's a ability to donate non-profit donate, online. People go to your website, follow you on social media. Where can we find you?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, so, social media-wise, the website is forestryfirerporg, and then my Instagram is royalraimey and then our Instagram for FFRP is ffrp, underscore ca. Okay, and yeah, and if folks want to come and donate, that would be huge. Every dollar counts, right, you have a non-profit organization, so 501c3, so you get a tax write-off at the more work that we can actually do. And, yeah, I'm excited to continue to. You know, build with people. That's, you know, that wants to.
Speaker 1:You know, see change and give people opportunity and to be successful in life question for you before, but before I get there is there anything that we have not covered today that you think, uh, listeners should know about your work? We've covered a lot of ground, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't cutting you short yeah, so we do have.
Speaker 2:Uh, I've been really focusing on on building up my buffalo hand crew um so I didn't mention that.
Speaker 2:We do have opportunities to go out on fires and um. You know that obviously that takes a lot of money because it's, like you know, it's a private kind of um, private contract crew kind of deal and it really gives the our participants the opportunity to to go out on fires professionally and from with my staff, because we are, you know, qualified to go out and and do this work. It's something that I'm trying to focus on more and like when it comes to fire suppression. But the biggest um focus for us is doing transitional work where I can hire some of the folks that come out of my career training program to do more to fill mitigation work, because we know, like um, one effort that we need to continue to think about is that we need to focus on, you know, the the preventative measures, right when it comes to wildland firefighting and ffrp is the intersection between workforce development, criminal justice reform and also climate resiliency, um. So I think we in a unique space to be able to touch on multiple different areas while combating these fires, being able to provide folks opportunity in the workforce, um and also, you know, help change folks lives, that folks that come out of incarceration. Um, quick fun fact for you, it costs about 138,860 dollars to house one person in california prison and I'll tell you if I can get about a quarter of that leave. That maybe even like 20, 25 000 that we can invest in in this person coming home from prison or even as in a marginalized community. Um, they can be able to to have a you know they can make about, you know, 6,000 to a hundred K a year with benefits, retirement, and you add up to all those numbers, right, like it's, it's, it can be as millions of dollars that we, that we have invested in when it comes to the, you know, social return on investment. And Cal Fire is hiring 2,400 firefighters in the next five years. We have a forestry worker shortage about, you know, 9,400,. You know labor shortage gap when it comes to forced labor by 2028. So it's a lot of opportunities for jobs and placement.
Speaker 2:And, lastly, I would want to say that we need to be more proactive in the preventative work for folks going, you know, outside of folks going to prison. So I really want to start. You know I did a little pilot in San Bernardino with this high school program, but we really need to, like, show folks that they can actually do it while they're in you know elementary, middle school, high schools, like be more proactive in talking to them about different career options, right, like I think that's something that I feel like a lot of. You know folks from people of color that have the nice, good occupations. That's not like glamorized. You know you got small business owners. You got lawyers, doctors, you know electricians, all these different you know. You know trades. You know like show more people of color and that's successful in the, in the, in the occupation, and mentor people and show you know, show face more at these career days and stuff.
Speaker 2:I think that's really important to show people there's different options out there. You know social influencers. You know folks in the media out there. You know social influencers. You know folks in the media, entertainment, you know, and in different aspects too, like it's all these different jobs and good paying jobs that I think folks are not too much aware of and we need to be more proactive and you know being more of a being in their community and showing up to those for the kids and just giving them the inspiration and power because like yeah, I'm doing it in fire camp and prison, but like as a nation, like how can we? Or as a world, like in any country, like how can we? You know, pay it forward and show folks that you know these are different options for them, instead of you know. Like I said, when I was a young kid, all I thought it was two different ways to be successful.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you know, as you, as you speak, I think about you know the changing climate. Whether people call it global warming or climate changes doesn't even matter, because it's changing and so we're seeing fires in parts of the country that historically we didn't see them, fires in parts of the country that historically we didn't see them. I'm from the East Coast and there's fires in states where I never remember at all having fires when I was a kid. So, as you say, the opportunities for these jobs that typically people don't talk about, especially in an urban setting, I think your point is a critical one. Like that, mentorship and seeing for kids in an urban setting to see themselves reflected in someone who's working in the back country, but also all over the country, would be super powerful. So you know again, I want to encourage listeners to learn more about Royals nonprofit, the work that you're doing. It's transformative.
Speaker 1:You're humble about your recognition, but congratulations, and also congratulations on the pardon as well. That's huge. I want to just close with one hypothetical question for you. Imagine you got the chance to design a billboard for the side of the freeway. I'm not sure what freeway is closest to your house in San Bernardino, I don't know the 15 or something, you got a chance to design a billboard for the side of the freeway that people saw as they drove by. What does your billboard say to the world about what you believe, what you find, to be important in this life?
Speaker 2:You know I'm a Christian, so obviously you know Jesus Christ is some. You know that it got to be on the billboard and what I believe, but also to just there'll be a collage of things of, I think, people you know, need to know that you're not the some. You know some people make mistakes and they shouldn't be a sum of one bad day or that you know, or one mistake that folks made, right. I think we need to get into a place where, you know, second chances is real and I think humans need to understand grace and mercy for folks. And you know you can turn it around. You know, because that's something that I just believe in and I have lived it, you know. You know I've been on both sides, kind of now, so I understand that.
Speaker 2:You know folks can change and move forward and, you know, be the best person you can be. You know, just continue to grow, continue to educate yourselves, continue to, you know, have an open mind and be thoughtful about what you do and and and lastly, like, think about how you, like I said in your deathbed, like, what are your last, like what would you want your legacy to be? How have you contributed to society? Because everybody have a limited time and there isn't is. Are you doing everything you need in order for you to make true impact and change, and, um, and if you're living a healthy and happy life, right, um, I think those are the things that are definitely collaging in that billboard. Um, and hopefully that can you know, and sometimes some inspiration thing or something I don't know, but uh, nobody hasn't ever asked me that question, so that's, that's off the cuff and off the fly so that that's how.
Speaker 1:That's how it's supposed to be. So that's. There's a reason. I didn't ask you that in advance, because you would have, you would have planned it out and and uh. So I appreciate that because that's authentic, the way you have it, and what resonates for me is this whole impetus of being able to turn things around right. Your life exemplifies that and, as a Christian, you you know there is no more redemptive symbol than Jesus Christ. So I think that's that's so powerful and and I really thank you for the time that you've given today to our listeners, for the work for the people you've impacted, both the people you know you've impacted and then the people who you don't even know you've impacted. Right, because I'd imagine each of those people who has gone through your program 90% of them are not ending up back in the criminal justice system and that has a ripple effect in the world Like that means functional, caring people back in communities, doing good for other people, and that just is good for humanity. So thank you for your contribution to making this life better for people.
Speaker 2:Man, that's well said and that's something that I think about all the time too. It's like I ain't going to be too long-winded, but I just can imagine, like when it's all said and done for myself, like when you change, you know, 300-plus people's lives which we have. You know that many people through our program, since, technically, 2015, we've been working with people, but I can imagine what now, the trajectory of their lives, for their families and their generations, right of their kids, kids, you know they have a piece of, you know, 300, 400 years that it helped build the trajectory of somebody you know or their families and you know, and what that can actually provide. You know, now that you know that family member or you know that son, a daughter, that husband, that wife you know have given um help with this financial stability where they can go to college now and now they could put them in a position where they can, you know, live in a different neighborhood and a better living condition, right, um, and just think about that generational um lane.
Speaker 2:And now, that's why I'm so, I'm so happy and I'm so blessed and um, it ain't me, you know, it's God to me. So everything I do is not even me, it's really God and um. I give all the glory to him and um. But just yeah, I see it, you know, and I'm I'm just so humbled and grateful um and and blessed.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you, Chief Raymond. I really, really appreciate and have enjoyed our conversation today. I learned so much and I'm definitely going to go check out and donate as well to the organization and encourage others to do it as well.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on the Hangout Podcast. You can send us an email at podcastinfo at protonme. Many thanks to my daughter, maya, for editing this episode. I'd also like to underline that this podcast is entirely separate from my day job and, as such, all opinions expressed herein are mine and mine alone. Thanks for coming on in and hanging out.
