The Hangout with David Sciarretta
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The Hangout with David Sciarretta
#96 Advocacy & Education: An Interview with Border Angels' Ana Miguel
Ana Miguel, Educational Programs Coordinator for Border Angels, shares her personal connection to immigration work as the daughter of migrants from Guanajuato, Mexico, revealing how her family history shapes her passion for humanitarian border assistance and activism.
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Welcome to the Hangout Podcast. I'm your host, david Sharetta. Thank you to my daughter, maya, for editing this and many of the episodes over the past two years, despite being a full-time student and balancing the demands on her time. You'll notice in the show notes we have a link where folks can donate to support the show, if you're so inclined. Thank you in advance. Any donation amount matters and counts and helps us to continue to do this high level work and bring you the quality content that we strive to each and every episode.
Speaker 1:In this particular episode, I had the privilege of sitting down with Ana Miguel. Ana Miguel is Educational Programs Coordinator for Border Angels. You can find them at borderangelsorg. She was raised in San Diego and earned her associates and then her bachelor's degree in Chicana Chicano Studies at San Diego State University. Ana joined the Border Angels team in September of 2022. And, as comes across in our conversation, she is a passionate advocate for her community and looks forward to continuing the mission of Border Angels in terms of educating and supporting the community on the rights of migrants and refugees. In our conversation, it is very apparent that Ana's own personal and family journey is intimately and inextricably bound to the mission and vision of Border Angels, and that's what makes this conversation extra powerful. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Welcome, ana. Thank you so much for spending a little time chatting this afternoon. Of course, I'd like to start at the beginning with you, your history, who you are, where you come from, and then also what brings you to this current work that you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my name is Ana Miguel. I am from San Diego born and raised, and I honestly fell in love with the idea of this type of work through my parents. Both of my parents came from Guanajuato in the late 80s and I guess growing up I really assumed that everything was easy. You know, I really believed in that whole idea of, yeah, you apply today to get your papers, you'll get them, you know, by the end of the month, and I didn't learn about a lot about their history until I started working here and growing up I felt like I just was never concerned of their status, even though growing up in San Diego, so close to the border, it was something that I just always felt so protected by. And, you know, even just having, uh, you know, all my siblings there. You know, I'm the youngest of five kids, I am the only woman from, from my whole family, and so you, you had to grow up being tough because you probably got yes, had to wrestle for everything yes.
Speaker 2:So even just growing up in a big family, it's sometimes, you know, you, I feel like, in a way, you feel what's lacking, and something that I thankfully never felt was that safety. I know that that's not something that a lot of people can, you know, say, and even for my brothers that I'm growing up, they grew up at a time where my mom didn't have papers and, again, that was something that I didn't know until me being 25.
Speaker 2:Okay, so your parents, at least your mom came undocumented in the beginning and then eventually went through the process yes, so my dad was able to help her with her status because he was able to get papers through reagan under the whole amnesty thing. And even with that, you know, and with everything that we're seeing now with this new president or with his second term, is that my dad also believed in that whole. You know, hey, this person saved me. He must be great.
Speaker 1:He referred to.
Speaker 2:Reagan, yes, and then now we see like no, reagan did so much shit. He harmed a lot of communities, specifically, you know, black and brown communities, and yet you know there's this idea that my dad has that oh hey, he's great, and I think that's something that we're still seeing today with Trump, where you know words matter, and with the way that he speaks about migrants in this community. It's something that's very, very harmful and even though he may provide some sort of pathway for one certain kind of people, he's not creating that for the whole population or that whole specific community, and I think that's something that is needed.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about what it was like when you first learned that your mom did not have papers, and then we can talk about the whole Reagan piece. So what was that like?
Speaker 2:For one. Just some more context. My mom passed away 10 years ago so even with that, it's like I couldn't have that conversation with her.
Speaker 1:I had to have it with my siblings so you never didn't find out until after she had passed away so you didn't find out until after she had passed away that for a time she did not have papers, and then she got her papers.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, so my brother that told me we have a six year age difference and he went his whole life without, you know, her having papers. Well, his childhood and then you know, that's just. It was really interesting for me to, you know, even just like, talk to him about that and knowing that he was scared and he had that fear, and he remembered hearing my parents talk about it, you know, in the mornings when they thought nobody was there, he would hear about, hey, well, like this is the process that we're, you know that we know we have to take. We have to either go back to Cuarez or pay the fee. I'm not sure how much it was, but I remember my dad telling me that there was a fee that they could pay to not have to go to Juarez. And that's what they chose to do because they were scared. I mean, they already had five little kids, Like a fine of some kind, yes, yeah, and they already had all of us.
Speaker 2:So that just wasn't something that my dad was willing to risk, even though you know he knew that that could have earned my mom her papers. He was like, hey, you know what? No, fuck that we're not doing that. So he was able to pay that fine for her and then that's how she was able to get her status fixed, and I mean even the whole time that she was alive. And I mean to this day. Even my dad, he only has his green card. He's still so afraid of having that citizenship test because he thinks that if he fails or somehow the government's going to find him and they're going to like take him out of here. You know and he's been here my whole life I'm 27 now he still has his green card has never tried applying for citizenship because of that fear.
Speaker 1:So he became a Reagan fan, yeah. So, how does that? I'm assuming he's not a Trump fan.
Speaker 2:No, no, no no.
Speaker 1:Did he stay a Reagan fan throughout Reagan's whole? How does that work?
Speaker 2:So with that, I really believe that he kind of idolized him because, yes, reagan saved my dad, right, you know, and that's basically what he did. And I understand where my dad comes from, especially because he was the one that actually, uh, crossed all of his siblings as well as my mom from Tijuana to here and, uh, that was just something that I remember when, uh, when I first did my first water job and when I first applied to here, he didn't understand to him he was, he was like, hey, I crossed for you, why are you doing it? And then, even then, with that, you know, it's like, I guess, again, with our water drops, we never crossed into Mexico. We're always in the United States, you know, with that safety that we're on public land, that we have a right to be there, and yet for my dad, he never felt that safety when he was making those treks, you know, and I guess in a way it feels kind of like what the fuck? You know, like I did it for you, you know.
Speaker 2:So you don't have to exactly, and that's something that I know I am choosing to do, but it's because I have that choice. There's so many people that we see and even when we don't see them and we just see their, the items that they leave behind, whether it's gallons of water they've consumed from the ones that we have placed, or any items or even clothing that has left behind. You know, that's how we know that somebody is there, and I remember my first water drop we had. We were already making our way back to our vehicles and I found a jacket. It was like a construction men's jacket and as soon as I saw it, I thought of my dad, you know, because it's how'd that feel it was rough your dad worked in construction.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, he did uh plumbing and he's still uh doing plumbing to this day, but it's it's something that I think has you. Don't think about it. You know, I feel like it's really hard for people to understand just what that experience may be like and also the trauma that it that you know you hold from from seeing all of that. And I remember that first water drop, before I even went, and my dad was just like making sure that I had everything, that I was fine and I was prepared. He was like, hey, do you want a little?
Speaker 2:uh, a little pocket yes, a little pocket knife and he told me that that's what he would carry um every time that he would cross, because he knew that it was dangerous, you know. And again for our water drops that we do, thankfully we don't. Uh, yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1:Let's get that clear at the front Whoever's going to want to volunteer for these? You don't need to go get a knife.
Speaker 2:No, exactly. So you know there's safety there that we know is guaranteed, but that's not something that my dad had, or that his siblings had, or that my mom had, and to this day it's not something that you can guarantee to somebody that's trying to cross or enter the United States illegally, you know. So I think that's also just a big difference. Every time we do, our water drops is wanting to emphasize that, hey, this is a small glimpse of what the reality is, but please do not assume that you understand now what an individual crossing through these routes is actually facing, because, for one, you have that safety that somebody's guiding you and that you know you're not going to get left behind. Two, you know that you're going to get back to your ac vehicle. You know you're not going to have to deal with hey, oh, there's border patrol. Oh, hey, there's this. You know you have that safety here we're having dinner at viejas casino exactly yes, so.
Speaker 2:So you know that's a huge difference and also it's just like hey, we're doing it in broad daylight, you know, if we hear noise, we don't have to worry about finding a hiding spot. We don't have to worry about if we hear helicopters. Even out where we do, the water drops out in the desert we sometimes hear gunshots from people just recreationally shooting out there, and now that's something that we know because we're familiar with the area. But for individuals who are crossing at night, who don't know where they even are, if you hear a gunshot you're gonna assume they're coming after you, you know. So I think that that's also just something that we really, really wanna emphasize with all of our programs, and especially me that I'm the educational programs coordinator here. I really want to make sure that anybody that comes out with us is educated on the realities and not on what they're hearing from social media, what they're hearing from media, what they're even hearing from the president. We know that. You know, trump really has been using a lot of negative language, even in the past through his first term the bad hombres, bad mujeres to label people. You know, and if you hear that from somebody that has that type of power that is. In that type of position, people are going to blindly believe, you know, and I think that even I keep thinking about my dad and Reagan, because he blindly believed him, because it helped him, it served him, it did something good for him and, thankfully, because of that, he was able to, you know, create this life here, that where me and my siblings were able to, you know, not have to worry about our status, not have to worry about, hey, we're going to school, are our parents going to be back when we're here, you know? Or if we see a cop, hey, is that person going to stop us? Are they going to check my dad? Are they going to check my mom's identification? You know, I never had to worry about that, and that's something that I think a lot of people don't recognize.
Speaker 2:It's such a privilege being here in this country, because there's so many people that, to this day, are living in that fear of hey, there's an ICE vehicle that just drove by. Are they going to pick me up? Are they going to pick me up? Are they going to question me? Am I going to be able to go back home to my kids? Am I going to be able to go back home to my pets? Am I going to go back home to even see my family? And I think that's something that is just very difficult.
Speaker 2:And even just personally, when I was younger I mean both I grew up with two family members that got deported. That one day they were here, the next day they weren't, you know, and that's something that, weirdly, was normalized. I didn't even question it. I was like, hey, yeah, that's just what happens if you're along the border, if you don't have papers, you get deported. You know, and that's something that I know a lot of people don't have to think about, that's something that a lot of times people don't have to think about, that's something that a lot of times people don't even have to worry about. But that fear has created, you know, a way or something that has just isolated so many people.
Speaker 2:With our day labor outreach program, when we go out to the Home Depots here in San Diego, we saw that a lot of fear was being felt by by those laborers, especially in the beginning of the year when there was ice raids happening all around the county, even just northern california that a lot of these laborers who are literally just looking for work, who are just out there trying to get hired for for that day. They're now waiting in their vehicles. They don't feel safe enough to be out there standing waiting for work. Why? Because they know that, hey, I could either be just, you know, just be seen for who I am, being a darker skinned person, and they're going to assume that I'm not from here, you know, and it's something that's just. It's rough.
Speaker 2:That program honestly always hits close to home, because my dad that were construction and then even based my grandpa to his dad I always saw them working on the weekends, taking whatever job they could, and it's something that, with a lot of those laborers, especially the latino ones that I'm able to, you know, speak in spanish with and interact with and engage with, uh, they're always so eager to even just show me pictures of their families, especially because, thankfully, we have created that trust with them, you know, with being out there at least once a month and actually having a conversation with them. I think that's's something that is very empowering in a way, because it allows you to share about yourself and about who you are, and I think that's something that a lot of these laborers often don't have, because nobody's interacting with them. They see them as being homeless, they see them as being dangerous, they see them as just being alcoholics or smokers. And you have to think about what they have lived to have to fall into substance abuse or even just using substances to want to continue living, to want to continue being there waiting for work, knowing that work is slow right now, knowing that that the home depots are honestly getting super out of pocket with security presence there and as well as even just people that are shopping at these Home Depots. It was rough last year that, at the end of the year, one of the laborers that again that trust that he showed me a clip of security peppers spraying them, you know, and that's something that I had such a hard time even just watching it because, like, these are literally just people. They're somebody to someone, they have a story, they're here for a reason and all they're doing is looking for work. That's all that they're doing. They just wanna be able to get money to be able to, you know, buy a coffee, buy a meal, be able to send it back home, and that's, I think, something that a lot of times people just forget. Why? Because it's so normalized. You see these laborers there all the time. One of those spots that we visit is here on Marketplace on Imperial.
Speaker 2:I grew up I'm still in that area, that area, you know, and when I was a kid, driving to home to with my dad, I'd always see them there. I never questioned, right, you know, it was just something that was like, hey, that's where people look for work and that's that with this, we've been seeing that there's also been a lot of, there's been an increase of different laborers that are also arriving. Last year I saw the oldest and the youngest labor that I had seen. Uh, this labor. He reminded me so much of my grandpa, like he was an older man. He wasn't somebody that looks strong, he looks like somebody that he's lived yes, he should be retired yes
Speaker 2:exactly. And that one shook me. And when I saw this young boy that he there's no way that he did not lie about his age, um and again, I completely understood as to why he lied. He didn't know me, you know. That's, that's perfectly fine, uh, but he said he was 17 years old. There was no way he was 17. He looked like a child. He looked like he was maybe 15 or younger. So that was really rough to see. Even there is just how. There's still the situation that you know. Individuals are still fleeing and are still going to be fleeing their countries in hopes of a better life here. They still blindly believe in the American dream and unfortunately, we know that that dream has cost so many people their lives, and it's rough.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that, and I think our listeners can glean from that too, that your own personal story is so wrapped up in your work.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So backing up a little bit, grew up in San Diego. You obviously have that family narrative that's connected to this work. Then you go to college, so is your major at all connected to this work?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a proud alumni from San Diego City College. I earned my associate's in social and behavioral studies. So right there I. Pretty connected, yeah, I feel like I have always wanted to do some sort of like humanities type of work, so that for me I felt like it was just, it just fell into my hands. And then, uh, from there I transferred to san diego state and I earned my bachelor's in chicano and chicana studies and a minor in political science.
Speaker 1:Also connected.
Speaker 2:Yes, so thankfully, I am using my degrees, but I have always just wanted to support people. I think that, for me, is just something that I want to be able to give back and be able to assist individuals who maybe don't know where to go, and I think that's something that I have always been very passionate about, because growing up, I was the main translator for my parents you know, you were that kid in the parent-teacher conferences yes, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Or when the school called, especially when schools didn't have as many Spanish-speaking staff. Right, yes, exactly they go. Hey, could you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, this was back in the time where I remember that they had removed the whole bilingual shit in schools too. So that was obviously just wild. Again, girl, we come to San Diego, but whatever. But with that, like I knew what my parents lacked, especially with my mom she did pass away from ALS, so it was just very, very heavy. And having to deal with doctors, you know, and even having to translate that medical jargon that at the time I was 15. I had no idea what I was saying, I had no idea what I was even translating, but I knew it needed to be done.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think that's something that has really pushed me to just want to assist anybody that I can and also just listen to people. I think something that we see a lot here is, maybe you know, that we don't listen to people's stories. We don't allow them to share about who they are, what they've been through. We just see them for, oh, this is who you are now, that's it. I don't listen to people's stories. We don't allow them to share about who they are, what they've been through, we just see them for, oh, this is who you are now, that's it. I don't care about your past, I don't care about anything else, you know, and just something that I've always seen within, you know, just the Latino community, is that for us you might say we like to cheese meat or we like to, you know, just like be in each other's businesses, but I think that for us it's really important to have that connection, you know, to connect with people and to to just be a resource, you know, and be somebody that has empathy and sympathy for people. And something that I have been very, very proud and I'm just very, very, always so happy to see when there are medical student groups who want to join us for our programs. And that is more because of that personal connection of seeing what was lacking with my mom's care.
Speaker 2:But one thing that I think a program or a group that really stood out with me is one from UC Irvine and there were all first-generation Latino students who wanted to see what it was like for an immigrant to make a journey or what they may experience with dehydration, with heat exposure and all of that. So that was actually one of my last water drops that I held during the summer. That was rough. I do not recommend any summer water drops that I held during the summer. Uh, that was rough. Uh, I do not recommend any summer water drops. That was the first time that I had actually seen the desert bead in the triple digits and that's you're down.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming somewhere near ends. Oh, let's see, I'm just trying to think you don't have to be too specific, but but within an hour's drive of here.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, an hour east from San Diego and it gets hot.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't think it was even noon and it was already 112. I remember that and I tend to share this story a lot with in my presentations or whenever I'm leading groups, because I want them to understand just how much these spaces can impact you, even if you feel safe, even if you feel you know, hey, I'm the one that's actually leading the group. There's times where you feel so small and I remember that day I felt so tiny. Uh, with this was an amazing group, I you know they were great overall and I just really enjoyed, um, how passionate, connected they were to to the work and the whole. Uh, water drop. But I remember, as we were, we were already ending it, walking back to our cars. We were probably like 20 minutes away from our cars. That's when the heat hit me. It felt horrible. It was so humid that day and the only way that I feel like I've been able to describe it is it literally feels like you're in an oven. Right, there's no, there's nothing to get you out of there, you know. And after that I had to step away from the org. Really, I just I took like two weeks off.
Speaker 2:I just didn't understand. I couldn't understand how there's people that don't have any other choice, who have to make that trek, who have to make that trek, who have to make that journey. Uh, and you know that's coming from somebody that's able-bodied, you know I can walk, I feel strong. But there's people who are deaf, who are old seniors, who, you know, maybe missing a limb, or who are blind. You know, how do you prepare somebody like that to make a journey? And again, I, I completely understand that for our water drops you know we probably do or for those, uh, those desert water drops, it's probably at most six hours that we're out there. That's all in one day. There's individuals who are making these tracks from, you know, they can be all the way from down south, you know, from South America. We've seen individuals arriving from the Middle East, even from China, that are making these tracks.
Speaker 2:And again, you know, that's insane to me, even though we're doing this work, and even though I'm involved in this work, it's wild to to do that, you know, and putting yourself in danger, because that's what you're doing. You're putting yourself in danger and again, even with with myself, that I'm like, hey, I feel pretty strong, I'm like I could do these walks. Imagine being a mother carrying a child, you know, and it's I don't know, that was just. It was rough, uh, and I am just very, very thankful that here in our team maybe because we are so small we just really support each other's mental health. We understand that this work drains you, it does, it pulls at you and I know I don't want to leave the work, but it's tiring and it's something that I am always very, very transparent with the students and with anybody that joins us. It's like, hey, we've been around since 1986.
Speaker 1:It's 2025. Pre-operation Gatekeeper.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we're still doing this, you know. And then even with with Operation Gatekeeper, that's always something that we highlight as well, you know, hey, like that was in 1996. And even just you know, I know sometimes people want to say, oh hey, republicans, democrats, operation Gatekeeper was under Bill Clinton, there's, you know it's. That's a whole, whole mess right there too. You know we have to understand that a lot of these policies weren't created for people of color. You know it was to find that perfect or that proper American, and a lot of times that doesn't an American or the way that Americans are supposed to be represented doesn't align with somebody that's dark skinned, you know. And even with shit that was happening with who was it? Biden, where you know he rolled out the CBP One app? Yeah, it was, it helped people. But it's also important that that was not well done, you know well, the first.
Speaker 2:My understanding is that the first iterations of it, first of all, didn't work on android it was whack, it was horrible and so we 95 of the world doesn't have iphones exactly, and even another issue was that you had to submit a picture of yourself. Right, people were standing in front of a direct sunlight, in front of a light. It was not reading their features, yeah, and it's like if that's one of the first steps to be able to get an appointment to seek asylum, and you're telling me that you can't even see me or that your, you know, uh, technology can't even read my features. How am I supposed to move forward with this? You know? How am I going to earn an appointment? How am I going to do this? How am I going to do that?
Speaker 2:And even with just the fact that the translations were off not everybody speaks English like, come on, you know, and if one person you know were to write something incorrect, that'll fuck up their whole, um, their whole case, you know, and it's, it's something that, just again, when people want to believe that, hey, why didn't this person enter legally? Or hey, why didn't this person just seek asylum, it's not that fucking easy, it's not, and I think that's something that just is frustrating. I don't know how else to describe it, but it's just so frustrating to know that there's so many people that still believe in these false ideas, you know. And then even with uh, that whole cbp1 app that was honestly a shit show, uh. And with operation gatekeeper, where it's like these supposedly paths to to legal status, but yet when it doesn't work for people, what happens is they turn to dangerous routes to be able to enter the united states. So with that whole prevention through deterrence, that shit's bullshit, it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:We know that people, when they're in the um state of hey, I'm, if I don't leave, I'm gonna die, my family's gonna die, I'm gonna be in danger, you're gonna flee. You're gonna flee no matter what and you're gonna do it in whatever way. I don't leave, I'm going to die, my family's going to die, I'm going to be in danger, you're going to flee. You're going to flee no matter what and you're going to do it in whatever way you can. We've been seeing here in Imperial Beach in La Jolla that boats that are capsizing.
Speaker 1:The bongos.
Speaker 2:Yes, the boats that people who don't know how to swim are getting on and are choosing to put their lives at risk to either drown or make it here alive.
Speaker 2:And I don't understand, like I genuinely do not understand and I know I'm privileged to not be able to understand just how much danger and fear you have to be feeling to get onto a boat or to do that trek, knowing that you don't know if it's guaranteed for you. And I think something that I am I'm really glad that we have in the program that we have here is our Volviendo a Casa program, because I think sometimes people assume that everybody that makes it here makes it alive, it's guaranteed, no matter what. That's not the reality. That's not the truth. Here. Makes it alive, it's guaranteed, no matter what. That's not the reality, that's not the truth. And with one of our programs we're able to assist low-income families as well as paying with the remains and being able to transfer those remains back to their respective countries of origin. You know that's the reality. You know there's individuals who make it, who attempt to make it to the United States and unfortunately lose their lives.
Speaker 1:So where? How do you do their family members come to you and say, hey, we need help? Yeah, getting the remains home, and then you make the financial resources available.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's a funeral home here called I believe it's for now, do the lapis look they sometimes families will be like, hey, this is the case and they'll reach out to us. The funeral home will reach out to us. Or sometimes people just know us through word of mouth. That's actually how a lot of our programs work, even with our bond program, that people just find out about us, they have our number and they'll contact us.
Speaker 1:Tell us a little bit about the bond program.
Speaker 2:So with that shelter aid, a bond program that was actually rolled out in 2019 so it's even before I joined the team and with that specific program it was launched because of individuals being detained without being able to pay those bonds. These detention centers that we support currently are the Adelanto, the Imperial Regional, otay Mesa, and I believe there's one more that we just recently added. We actually had that first case this year. But with these detention centers, I think sometimes people don't know that to pay a bond, you have to be a citizen. You can't, you know, just if you don't have a status or if you don't have legal status here, you can't just show up and pay it, even if you know that person that's detained. And a lot of times, with those individuals who are detained, they don't have the money to pay for those bonds. Why?
Speaker 2:Because they assume that once they make it here, they're going to make it here without being caught, and a lot of times all the money that they have is used to pay for that trek you know, to enter the United States, and something that we've seen that's honestly just sucks is that for a lot of even first-time offenders, bonds are being set up at ten thousand dollars and they don't have that type of money.
Speaker 2:You know, even sometimes with the lower ones that we've seen, which are typically about five thousand, they have a hard time paying those bonds as well. And with that program I I think it's just it's a program that honestly is pretty rough, especially when they call us. So I think sometimes people assume that you know it's like a call center, or hey, you call and a robot picks up. No, it's us, it's our team that actually answers all of these phone calls, and sometimes it's difficult when you can't understand them. You know, when it's their accents that are like hey, I'm sorry, but can you speak a little slower, or hey, like you know it's because they're either.
Speaker 1:So that's one of the false assumptions that everybody is. People who don't think about this in a detailed, rigorous way think everybody's coming from mexico. So that's a? That's not true. Yeah, they might be passing through mexico, but they're not mexican, so there's caravans with people from all over, and then there might be non-spanish speakers as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we actually have seen individuals from all over the country. With this program, as of now, we've been able to help individuals from 32 different countries. So, yes, like you said, it's not just from Mexico, even though we're here in San Diego. A lot of those recipients are from the Middle East, they're from Central America. We have seen individuals even from Ukraine, russia and China, who who need assistance, who need that support, and with this, this program, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I thought it was just wild that the way that people find those our phone number is literally by just being it passed around through each other. You know, it's not that they were even familiar with us. You know, back when they were in their respective countries it was until they were detained that they're like oh, there's actually somebody here that's local that's able to assist with paying those bonds. And those phone calls are rough a lot of times because you know that they're in a moment of like, hey, I want to get the fuck out of here, I don't want to be detained, I want to get out, I want to be free. And we know that those attention centers it's not like if you're in a four-story hotel, you're probably the shittiest conditions you've ever seen and you've ever been in and during COVID as something that, again, I am very, very thankful that I to take donations out there, you know whether they were face masks or hand sanitizer and they had to be told hey, we can't even access the detention centers, we can't enter them, they're not open to the public.
Speaker 2:And with one of the cases that we were able to assist, he actually spoke out about the conditions that he was seeing. He actually spoke out about the conditions that he was seeing and during this time, unfortunately, if you tested positive for COVID, you were just sprayed with chemicals, chemicals that were not safe to humans, chemicals that caused a reaction on this man's skin and that even gave him health issues. But yet again, that's what's happening behind closed doors, when there's no cameras, when there's nobody policing the policers, you know, and it's just, it's wild just seeing how dehumanizing these, these spaces, are for so-called criminals, for individuals who may be first-time offenders or individuals who, again, are just seeking a better life here and with this program we've seen people who are on the younger end, people who are on the older end, who, again, are just trying to have a better life here.
Speaker 1:And I think it's important to note, as you have on your website, that those bonds are for people without a criminal record.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that narrative that somehow you're you're you're letting criminals into society is is not accurate no, yeah, and I think that, again, that's why it's so important to educate people on the realities of what it's like, you know. And then, even with that, sometimes we even have groups who are local uh, schools to san diego, who have never seen the border wall, or who are from northern county, that are like, well, I've never had a reason. They see it up close and they're like, oh, this is it. We do our presentations out in Plaza Las Americas, the outlets which, honestly, every time I take out a group, they're like this is where the fucking border is you walk out, you turn left, coming out of the gap?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, and a lot of times they're so shocked because they assume that it's like how you see it on the news that the border was literally out in the desert, it's in the middle of nowhere. But no even how. We were just talking about earlier Friendship Park. The Tijuana side of Friendship Park Beautiful, gorgeous. They always have events there for the community.
Speaker 1:There's a little outdoor gym right there.
Speaker 2:And then you see it on this side. You can't even visit it, but it looks like, it looks gross, it looks ugly and it stinks, you know, and there's nowhere for you to even just like have a walk, have a walkway or anything, but yet we still want to say, oh, mexico's third world, mexico's this, mexico's that, tijuana's this, tijuana's that. Look at us, we're not any better. I honestly just yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know. So you've talked to us a little bit about the water drops. That's kind of, I think, what was the signature initial practice for Border Angels. Right, there's the bond program, there's the outreach to day laborers the home depot lows situation that you described. There is also outreach in tijuana. Can you talk to us about that?
Speaker 2:yes, so we do currently provide support to 12 shelters in tijuana. I always like to say that they're not our shelters. We don't own them. Them we just support them. And we provide support with donations, whether that's for rent, for utilities or even physical donations. Like you can see here, we actually have a caravan this Saturday for Dia de las Madres. So we have a couple of toys and just even some like little care packages for the mothers at the shelter that we'll be visiting this Saturday.
Speaker 2:But with this program, it's a program that honestly, I think it's very beautiful because it does allow for volunteers to see the realities that migrants are living in in Tijuana. In Tijuana and with these shelters, I remember when we visited one of the largest shelters here that we support. It houses 1,600 migrants. 600 of those migrants are children. It's huge, it's wild just seeing that a lot of these kids, that's their home, that's all that they know. They don't remember their countries of origin. They remember these shelters.
Speaker 2:And the way that volunteers are able to join with with visiting those shelters is through our caravan of love program and through that program we do meet out here in front of our office. Individuals load up their donations, whether it's physical donations that we have in the office or donations that they are able to purchase, and then we go caravan down to Tijuana and visit a shelter With this program. I think it also provides a good reality check to a lot of people as to just the difficulties not just of going to Tijuana but even just getting donations from San Diego to there. So we obviously still pay the aduanas, we pay the fees.
Speaker 1:You gotta pass through the whole. Declare it all right.
Speaker 2:So that often takes about an hour, depending on how many donations we have, and then from there we do sometimes visit shelters that are a little bit closer to the border, but then sometimes we do have to go a little bit further, further in, and thankfully we've never lost any volunteers out there. They always make it safe and they always come back safe. But with this program, I think it's honestly just a great way to show the reality of what it is. And I think one thing that I find very, very beautiful with this program is that we've had great volunteers that have joined us from here in the United States and volunteers in Tijuana who live out there and have just joined us. But thankfully, when we were able to bring it back I believe it was last or was in 2023 I believe that we actually had a volunteer.
Speaker 2:This this volunteer, his story has stayed with me this this whole time. He was actually in Tijuana, living there. He had seen that we were reopening up our programs. He's like, hey, I want to go, I want to support. He was a barber and he met us at the shelter. He didn't really tell us, I only knew his first name. That was it. He didn't provide much of his story, but he was over here going and cutting kids' hairs, cutting the women's hairs, the men's hairs. They were so excited, it was such a precious moment. And at the end of the day he tells us that he just has to leave a little early and we're like, yeah, that's perfectly fine, you know. And that's when he tells us that he was also living in a shelter and the reason he had to leave early is because a lot of these shelters have curfews just to do safety of the migrant safety. We know that a lot of times these shelters are watched by cartels assuming that everybody that arrives there has money or assuming that if they kidnap them they could get money from them. And that's also the main reason that we don't share the names of the shelters we don't want to put them in any danger, uh.
Speaker 2:But back to cristian. Uh, he was the barber. He was over cutting everybody's hair and then he tells us that he was from venezuela, and this all of our caravans always happen on saturdays. That following week, uh, he actually had his appointment to go to a sponsor up here in Las Vegas. So it felt like a full circle moment. It was so sweet and just so cute to know that he understood.
Speaker 2:You know what that experience was. He understood what it was like to flee your country, arrive in a shelter and just play the waiting game of seeing when your case was going to be next voter, and just play the waiting game of seeing when your case was going to be next, and you know, I think he was just a great reflection of. He didn't have much, but he identified with those migrants. He provided a service, he made these kids laugh, he gave them little sweet fades and and he was one of them, you know, he was and is still a migrant, you know, and I think that's just. It shows that there's still so much love and humanity with with this community.
Speaker 2:And I think it just shows, too, that it's like it's not the narrative that you hear in in media or you hear on the news that every individual that comes to the United States is dangerous, that they're violent. No, some people literally just have that dream of arriving here, and I think something that we also just have to remember is that the United States has played a major role in these countries. It's so unfair in my eyes to just constantly say, oh, all these countries are sending their bad people. What the fuck were we doing in these countries? You know, and I think that also just really uh emphasizes you know, that there obviously is a need for these people to flee.
Speaker 2:You know, and again, they're fleeing from places that aren't just a walk in the park.
Speaker 2:They're not just coming, you know, crossing the border and they're arriving here. A lot of these individuals are coming from the darien gap. They're coming and traveling through la bestia, the beast, the train and all of these different routes that individuals are taking are fucking dangerous. You know, they literally are putting their lives at risks and just because they want to, you know, believe in the american dream and uh, with just back to the day, labor outreach program with a lot of these laborers, it's it's kind of sad to hear and to uh just know that they were lied to. A lot of times, uh, I do ask the laborers if this is what they imagined, you know, arriving to the United States, and it's not. They did not expect to be homeless, they did not expect to be living in shelters, they did not expect to be waiting for work out in the sun, to be, you know, discriminated by employees, by the customers there. So, again, a lot of times, these individuals are just looking for a better life. That's literally it.
Speaker 1:So Border Angels is supported by donations in 501c3, and we'll link in the show notes. We'll link to that. How has your work and overall the work of the organization been able to be sustained and continue despite the political climate? If it started in the 80s you're talking about all the way back to Reagan and Bush one, and then Clinton and all the way up and we have Obama, sometimes known as the deporter-in-chief, in there too. Climate in San Diego, in a still pretty conservative town it's become a lot more blue, but in early years definitely a military town Like. How has Border Angels been able to not just survive but thrive in the midst of that? That's the first part of my question. The second part is how do you and your team stay focused on the work and not get pulled into a lot of like the whole narrative that surrounds, like bad hombres and that whole thing?
Speaker 2:um, I think we've been able to thrive, or we've still been able to, you know, keep our doors open, honestly, because we're transparent with what we do. Uh, I think, yeah, I think just having that openness with volunteers and with anybody that works with us is just, hey, this is how we do it. You can see that we're very small, we're not a big group at all, and I think just being having that passion for this work has also very, um, that has been transmitted to our supporters. So, so I think, something that was very beautiful even when I had first started it was actually in 2023, when Title 42 ended. So Title 42 was just a policy that Trump had used, where he used the pandemic as a pretext to, you know, not allow individuals coming here and, you know, again, assuming that we were doing something for the greater good, that's not what happened. And after Title 42 ended, we saw that there were a lot of arrivals in the desert, and that was the first time that we had seen an open or detention center out in the desert, and that was the first time that, being a part of the organization, we had to do a call out and I saw the answer we had this whole office covered with donations. My coworker actually had to start sending donations to her house because we just didn't have space in here anymore. And I think, because we don't romanticize this, you know, we show it for what it is and I think people have been able to trust us because of that and by also having a continuous presence in the communities. It's not just here us sitting in our office, but it's actually going out to these different spaces and even just schools here here in in San Diego. I've been able to go do tabling events at SDSU. I've been able to go talk to La Jolla Country Day and again that's North County and I think that's very important as well, that we've been able to have these presentations and these talks and these spaces all around San Diego.
Speaker 2:I think, especially with the younger folks that we're seeing and I'm not going to lie, there was a time where I thought there was no future. I thought that was just it, but being able to interact with the students has really just shown me that, hey, there's still empathy, there's still love, there's still kindness, there's still space for people to want to learn, and even when we do, or when I do, the presentations, I always go in it, knowing that I'm here to present the information that I have. It's up to the audience to follow what I'm saying, you know. It's up to them to to want to have that trust and see our work for what it is, because something that we always like to also emphasize is that we're not advocating for anybody to enter the country illegally. We're not pushing for any individuals to come here illegally, but we understand that migration and immigration is going to continue to happen no matter what, and I think by being able to have people join us and have that trust with us in the work that we do has allowed for us to be open even today.
Speaker 2:And with our volunteers, I think with them, it's always just something that's very beautiful because we have volunteers who come down. It's always just something that's very beautiful because we have volunteers who come down. You know, from San Francisco. Actually, there was a.
Speaker 2:I remember I was shocked when I heard that she had driven from San Francisco just to do a water drop with us. Wow, and it was because she wanted to give back to her parents. Her parents had crossed, she wanted to pay it back and I think by even just allowing for spaces of reflection with groups. I think it has also allowed for people to see us just as people and not trying to paint us as being superior to anybody, because we're not. All of the team is literally here just to be able to assist individuals. We're not here because we believe that we're angels, because we're not. We're just people who care. That's literally it, and I think that's something that, thankfully, people have been able to see and have been able to understand with the work that we do and then even just wanting to just be in the community, you know, and create community with anybody that works with us, and just being transparent of who we are and what we do.
Speaker 1:My understanding is that Border Angels originally started reaching out to in the 80s, I think, reaching out to agricultural laborers in North County and anybody I mean. It's changed a lot but there are still significant agricultural labor in the flower fields and different areas. So it's interesting that it wasn't just only focused on international border.
Speaker 1:It was just more seems to be based on the humanity and humanitarian efforts. Yes, to be based on the humanity and humanitarian efforts. Yes, yeah, so this is probably a. This is a personal question, but are you ever afraid for your safety?
Speaker 2:I am, but it's funny that the people that I get scared of is Border Patrol. It's not even so how is that?
Speaker 1:dynamic right so. I'm assuming, I'm assuming you, you're assuming you're referring to when you're out in the desert, yeah, so how does that dynamic go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've actually started expanding our water jobs also to be in the Otay Mountains. So, we do have them out in the desert and in the Otay.
Speaker 1:Mountains, near where the fires were.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah. So that fear I have never felt it from being with the day laborers even though they're all men, older men, never felt that fear with them. Uh, never felt fear going to the shelters or anything like that, and the only time I feel like I have been scared is just with border patrol. Uh, one of the first volunteer water drops back when we reopened the volunteer program. This was in December of 2023, I believe, or if not 2022, but that was the first time we took four. It was only four volunteers. It was me, my co-worker Osvaldo, who's the volunteer coordinator, and those four volunteers, and that was the first time that Border Patrol had stopped us. I do just also want to say that we do have a working relationship with Border Patrol but, that working relationship does go so far.
Speaker 1:They know it's also dependent on whoever the officer is.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly so I think it's really important that they are aware of who we are, so that hopefully they don't tamper with anything that we leave behind, whether it's gallons or has that happened? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Puncture holes in it or whatever right.
Speaker 2:Yes, we don't know if Border Patrol did it. We don't want to say if Border Patrol did it.
Speaker 2:Someone, yes, someone with a sharp, sharp knife and the most recent one was actually out in the otay mountains this year where they destroyed one of the crates and they also put america siempre or america forever.
Speaker 2:So clearly, you know, picking a side there, uh, but yeah, so that that instance that we had a border patrol out, so he first, the agent, spoke with staff, us, the two border angels representatives, and as soon as they heard our name, the agent just turned away from us and started speaking to the volunteers.
Speaker 2:And I remember that this agent, right away, you know, flicked it from just trying to change their mindset of saying why are y'all helping these people? These are bad people, they're not good, what's the point? And again, speaking about migrants, you know, and literally just a person, a person that's just trying to go from one country to the other country, uh, this agent was just trying to paint this narrative that what we're doing is illegal, which it's not, because, again, we're on public land the whole time that we do our water drops. And it's like if you, thankfully, these volunteers, you know, were aware of the situation, they understood how you train them or you give an orientation and they knew as well that they were safe, that they weren't doing anything that was going to put them in jail or anything.
Speaker 2:Um, so again, that agent really tried to paint this picture of it being like legal work or it being something that were harming people. But again, all that we're doing, or all that we did, was place water gallons and survival packages. Water is a basic human need and yet that was being politicized, you know, and yeah, so I think. I think that is always rough when and it's frustrating I I just don't understand.
Speaker 1:I don't understand. Do you ever have people who volunteer to help from a humanitarian standpoint, but who also believe that the border should be strongly enforced? Do you ever have people like that?
Speaker 2:We have had an instance like that. It was before I joined the team, though, so it was a group, they were Republicans, but they wanted to come and do a water drop.
Speaker 1:So they did participate in it, the human side, but they believe in stronger border. Well, this is that piece about, as you say, Operation Gatekeeper was a Clinton era policy and the Obama administration deported, I think probably still to this date, the most in any eight years interesting things.
Speaker 1:I just interviewed the founding attorney for the Union Law Group, which is a law firm, an immigration law firm here in just down the hill probably near where you grew up, barrio Logan, and the attorney told me that the difference between previous administrations and this one and how he and his lawyers have to approach cases, is that this administration is the most creative in the reasons they're coming up with. So this the aliens act, for example, and others that he's like I never. I remember learning about that in my first year law school class, like 25 years ago, and I never thought it was going to be a thing and but like that, there are many right where they're like oh, we're going to do this, we're going to try this, I'm going to go for a third term. Someone said I could be president for life, like, and so he's having to. His law firm is having to be even more creative with their solutions and I thought, that was really an interesting perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Have you ever had political leaders who come out in support of your work, or do you try to stay outside of that, or do they not want to come out in support of it? I always thought that was an interesting thing. Do you have local politicians like the mayor of San Diego or whatever? Do they ever get involved?
Speaker 2:Not. Since I've joined the team, I haven't seen that there's been much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just because of the politics. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just because of the politics. I mean, we've seen it with past presidents always using immigration as a little political token to gain from people. But as of now I haven't.
Speaker 1:And these topics are the immigration issue, Even the way people vote on it. It's not a simple thing along racial lines, right, you can look at the last presidential election. When I first started in my teaching career in 1994, way before you were born Prop 187 passed in California, and of course it was challenged in the courts, but it would have required schools and hospitals to ask for immigration status before providing services. It was supported by Latino voters in California. That's wild, and so these aren't just clear.
Speaker 2:Well, you have a perfect example your dad, big Reagan fan you know, and he couldn't even vote, and he couldn't vote right on top of it.
Speaker 1:Sorry, reagan, wherever you are right now, you didn't get a vote because you couldn't, so it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:These aren't just simple issues either. Yeah, it's honestly with that. It's been so frustrating, even just seeing the Latino voters For Trump. I know I'm not saying any names, names, I'm like it doesn't matter. My dad, who again crossed his own siblings One of his own siblings is now a Trump supporter. I cannot understand that for somebody who entered the country illegally, was able to get their paperwork and everything situated, and now he's a Trump supporter. To me personally, it felt like a slap in the face. It was just insane. And even with people who I have gone to high school with, who are Mexican, who their own parents or who themselves are first generation, there were also Trump supporters, and the only way that I can justify it in my head is just that they don't want to be the other. They want somebody else to still be the other and not them. Interesting it's. I don't understand. Like genuinely, it's rough.
Speaker 1:Human nature is. I think one of the characteristics of it is it's pretty selfish, yep, yep, yep, yep. And so at the end of the characteristics of it is it's pretty selfish, yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:And so, at the end of the day, people really care about one thing, and it's it's, it's it's themselves, yeah, if you, if you've kind of been able to move past that zone of feeling at risk then, oftentimes you're okay there and you're not looking back to see who's in it, and I think your mom is looking down on you and very proud of how your journey has started out in this work, because you don't have to do this, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:You don't need to do this right.
Speaker 1:There's probably other work you could do with bigger offices and less daily stress, and so your story is very inspirational. I didn't really see it from looking at the website, but it's really just been humbling to hear your stories and how passionate you are for this work. Before I get to the last question, I do have an eye on the time. Is there anything that I have not covered, that that you it's like knocking around your head, that you want to just emphasize or underline?
Speaker 2:uh, one thing is to just be expose yourself. Go if you have never seen the border wall, or if you're from the midwest, if you're listening and you're go to las americas and go go to go do some shopping.
Speaker 2:Yes, please, exactly, just see the reality for what it is and don't allow yourself to be so blinded by by the media. That's really it. Just do some research on your own, find the information on your own and just have some empathy, have some sympathy. I think that really is something that I have just not understood how people don't care. That's it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. My last question is kind of a hypothetical, but imagine you were designing a billboard. Imagine you were designing a billboard and of course you are in charge of outreach and education for Border Angels, so this is probably in line with your work. Let's say you get the chance to design a billboard for the side of the 5 Freeway. What does that billboard say about what you believe in personally and also this organization, what it stands for?
Speaker 2:honestly, I feel like this mural right here okay, describe, describe, describe that for people listening uh, it was. It's a mural that's designed by salvador barajas.
Speaker 1:He's one of the og muralists out in chicano park and maybe I can, if I can take a picture, so I can include it in the show notes so that people know.
Speaker 2:And this mural, it just well for one. It says Amor si se puede, or love, yes, we can. And then La Virgen de Guadalupe is actually in the middle holding a cross that says no Olvidados are not forgotten. And she's also holding a water gallon and she's out in the desert that says no olvidados, or not forgotten, and she's also holding a water gallon and she's out in the desert. And then on both sides, uh, we have a small group on the left with chunky he's actually pretty famous in chicana park, yeah and uh, day laborers are out around him speaking with him, and actually our new interim executive director is is actually also represented there. She's speaking with the laborers as well. And then on the right hand, in the bottom right, it's Friendship Park, with a family in the Tijuana side and the San Diego side embracing, and right up top we just have a couple more gallons of water which says ni una muerte mas, or not another death.
Speaker 2:And I think, personally, this mural, just to me, it shows love, it shows that empathy, that kindness and just the reality of having families separated by the border. All that they want to do is embrace one another. But even now we see Friendship Park. You can't even put your finger through the holes there anymore. But even now we see Friendship Park. You can't even put your finger through the holes there anymore.
Speaker 2:So this, to me, it's just a big representation of who we are, of being out in the community, of not forgetting those who have made it here, who have not made it here alive, but also just being a sense of hope that there's still love here, there's still kindness and there's still opportunities for people who are here.
Speaker 2:I think that's honestly for me. I love this mural is one of my favorite murals that we have and I just want to say that. You know, love does combat. It combat everything, even with our programs. You know, I think there's a little bit of love in every single program that we do combat everything, hopefully, and even with our programs. You know, I think there's a little bit of love in every single program that we do and in the way that we do it, and even with the folks that we don't see, that we don't interact with immediately, when we leave these water gallons with a note of just you know saying or you know, keep going, just being a reminder that there's still love and that there's still kindness and that there's still opportunities.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. That was, I think, a very apropos place to end and I appreciate your time today and your memories and your personal story. I feel humbled to have spoken with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much Thanks once again for joining us on the Hangout. Please be sure to give us a five-star rating wherever you're listening to this show. Also, in the show notes there's a link for supporting this show with a financial contribution. Your support is very much appreciated. I've also placed information about Border Angels in the show notes so that you can do more research on Ana Miguel's work and that of the organization. Thanks again, thank you.
